last night i/we had another breakdown. i just didn’t know if this was worth it.
we went on a double date.
We are supposed to be trying to be social, he is supposed to be trying to connect with other males. Since high school, he has not made any new friends, nor has he stayed connected in a “let’s hang out” kind of way with any of those male friends. NMMNG says that Nice Guys don’t have male friends. They just have long given up them selves, their masculinity, that it becomes so difficult to relate to other men.
So it has been on his radar and he has been trying to really make friends with other guys.

He went to a basketball game a few weeks ago and asked several people to go. He ended up going with an old high school friend whom he talks to maybe once a year. When that friend came over, he was so awkward with him. I didn’t say anything.
By awkward, I mean that his posture changes. He physically looks like a 14 year old boy who is being dragged along somewhere he doesn’t want to go. He looks dreadful, disinterested, unhappy, and disengaged.

He “talks”, but it is not energetic, not at all demanding of attention, just quiet, listless, almost monotone boredom talk.

Last night, double date. Seated at a table, so his position in the group was forced. (When it is not forced, he always physicallly stands several feet back from the rest of the group.)
Besides being present though, his posture was just exhuasting. He was so disengaged. He did speak, he tried to have some back and forth conversation and did succeed, but it was so forced, so unnatural, just- so unattractive.

I’m tryiing here to encourage everything he is doing. I thank him for so so many things he does every day and for the love of christ, we have had sex an average of 5-6x a week (average has just gone down these past 2 weeks since the inability to cum from staying in me – we are trying not to do it as often.) I’m giving him blow jobs often when we don’t do it- I feel like I am trying. I am still getting beautiful (although that may take a break too)… so it’s not like I’m constantly tearing him down or berading him. I try to build him up, to positively reinforce, but some things there just isn’t a nice way to say.

furthermore, he has told me a dozen times to please just tell him, to please be direct. When he does something that is overly passive or unattractive, to simply tell him. He is open to that and has proven to me that he can handle it. Especially in terms of how to kiss me (ouch), how to touch and flirt and turn me on, how to dress, etc.

So I smiled through the double date and later at night, i “kindly” told him that his withdrawn attitude on our date was really unattractive to me.
He didn’t skip a beat this time. He said, I wasn’t withdrawn, I talked a lot. I did great. Me: No, you actually didn’t. him: What? I was so happy about tonight, I thought we had a great time- I talked a lot!! Me: okay— You did speak, but the tone of your voice, your posture, the way you sit and face down and crumple into a ball, you’re minimizing yourself because you don’t seem to value yourself socially, or don’t wnat to be seen, or something. your torso faces a different direction and your face and shoulders are curled down.
I recently heard and accept as truth: attraction is not a choice. You can’t “make yourself” be attracted to someone if you aren’t turned on by them. Attraction is or it is not present for someone. Many things play into it, it is more than physical looks, but of course looks are a great part of it.

This all hurt him greatly. More than anything else we’ve dealt with. I got just a hint of hurt when I told him I couldn’t handle the no tongue kissing any more. But it was fleeting.
This- it was intense. He was very very hurt and angry. Angry “at the situation.” I of course took that as being mad at me.

No, not me, “just the situation, but what the fuck,” he said….
yeah, what the fuck is right.
Clearly, he seemed angry WITH ME.
We go back and forth.

Later, we cry and get through it and I say things like: I’m so sorry. I don’t know how you deal with it. You are so strong and wonderful. You’re doing a great job. I’m sorry for having to say thiings like this. You know I love you. I am not trying to change you, I’m trying to help you find the person you were before you cheated on me. I’m sorry this is all so hard.

He tells me I don’t know how bad it hurts, how hard it is. That I don’t get it.
Really? I tell him no, I don’t—- but it hurts just as bad for me in other ways. JUST AS BAD.

I’m sobbing. I tell him “maybe this isn’t worth it. This is so fucking hard and everything hurts so bad. You and me are hurting in different ways, I just don’t know how to deal with it all.”
He says “I don’t know either.”
It scared me. I said, “is it worth it?”
Him: nothing.
Me: Maybe it isn’t that bad to not be noticed sexually, not be desired, not be seen or touched or kissed. Maybe I shouldn’t have messed with it.
– I was pretty much spiraling out of my mind at this point into the abyss of stupid crying.
Now, maybe he didn’t hear me, maybe he was deep in thought, whatever, he didn’t reply for several seconds.
Me: “Well, if we didn’t mess with it, I’d end up having an affair.” (boom.)
Him, pull back, deep sharp breath in, stop crying, “What?”
Me: I just mean that if we kept going like we were, it would end in an affair or divorce.
Him: hasn’t breathed yet: “WHAT?”
Me: I’m just saying. I don’t want that— that’s why all this is happening, so it DOESN’T end in an affair or divorce.
Him: that’s not an option. Grabs me close and pulls me tight again.
Me: I don’t want it to be either. But this is fucking hard.
Him: it’s worth it.

No sex was had last night.


Earlier in the day we talked about ways to identify that my needs are not being met (or are being beautifully met) without having a big discussion about it every time. We decided on the points system, to take after our kids being silly. I think it will be good.
I again explained that I want to be a sexual object. I want him to look at my breasts when we talk, to sometimes glance at my lips. Not to maintain eye contact. To stop being so fucking respectful all the time.
I told him I want him to bite me harder, slap my ass and pin me against a wall to make out with me some day.
That when he is rubbing my shoulder or back, there is never any reason NOT to wrap around and caress the edges of my boobs.
That when he puts his hand on my thigh, to sometimes go all the way up. Like, all the way up, and to caress just a little bit. To tease me. To turn me on and to BE SEXUAL.

I spelled it all out real clear. (Again.) Here’s to hoping.


Talk about running “dread.”
I was barely breathing all morning until after he saw the (our shared) IC. I was so nervous and dreadful and scared of what the IC would tell him about my behavior last night.
Was it “manipulative” again of me in telling him what I observed in his double date night interactions?
This was the IC who told me it was controlling, demanding, manipulative and out of guilt, shame and isolation that I demanded he notice me when I look sexy.
I wondered how much blame this would put on me. How bad I would be made out to be.
I accept that I have been at times, too controlling and demanding but manipulative—- all of that hurt. And it felt a little … unwarranted in the big picture. That’s beside the point. I was freaking out this morning.
He called me and told me it went well, and will tell me some more tonight. I don’t need to know all of it but I do hope to get some insight as to how much more blame got put onto me. Know what I’m up against maybe.